An Interview with Griffin S.
ABOUT THE WRITERS
Alden Nagel is the founder and editor of Nut Hole Publishing, and also a writer. You can find him on Instagram: @alden_nagel_. His debut novella FAG SYMPHONY is out now, via Nut Hole Publishing. He has an upcoming novella entitled Salination Mountains, and a (paired) novel entitled The Desalinated Exosphere.
Griffin S. is a writer, visual artist and noise musician. You can probably find him manipulating samples, reading James Ellroy or Philip K. Dick and smoking. He lives in Los Angeles. His debut novella Jackal Dog is out now, via Nut Hole Publishing.
Alden Nagel: You recently moved to Los Angeles. How has your life been there, so far? What have you been up to?
Griffin S.: It's been great. When you mention LA to people, you get a full spectrum of reactions, some warranted and some not. People have loaded opinions of the city, but to me, it has felt authentic and welcoming. I have gotten to know some amazing people so far and have really felt my creative spark returning so to speak. I absolutely love LA, despite the fact that as someone who was born in NYC, this probably puts me up for execution in New York.
As far as what I've been up to, a lot of creative projects actually. Let's be honest, no one really wants to talk about their day job and neither do I. I have some photoshoots in the works that I'm excited about, getting to work with some awesome people I am stoked to have the chance to collaborate with.
Los Angeles is a great city. I absolutely love it. It feels like so many disparate areas that are tightly connected by this looming freeway system. It has the shadow of 60s/70s era new age cult stuff, Pynchonian paranoia and conspiracy as well as the film industry that feels close but distant at the same time. It is equal parts menacing and beautiful.
Alden Nagel: Do you feel as if your recent move has inspired how you listen to music in any way?
Griffin S: I'm not sure it changed how I listen to music, more what I have been listening to. Still, I kind of rotate through my usual selection. I think Los Angeles has one of the more interesting music histories. The city has such a bizarre and weird energy to it. The home of death rock, the Beach Boys, Laurel Canyon, the hypnagogic pop stuff I love, west coast rap, Zappa… I could go on. Just so many weird and seemingly disparate genres that don't, on the surface, really make sense to have come from the same place. However, when you spend extended time in LA, it all really clicks. I don't really think there is anything else like it. It's also been nice getting to know people out here, finding out they make music and being able to check it out…and it's good! I definitely have felt less forced to pretend to be into genres or more forgiving of music I really don’t like for the sake of socializing. I'll just list out some of my favorite records of all time that I find myself revisiting lately.
Ariel Pink — Pom Pom
I have a hard time deciding which Ariel Pink record I like the most, but Pom Pom probably takes the cake. It is by far his most realized and cohesive work. A true magnum opus. I mean, Black Ballerina is probably the greatest ode to sleaze ever put into audio form. Nude Beach A Go-Go feels like listening to a 60s boy band that just discovered acid and sex. Every track on this album is perfect.
Crystal Castles — Crystal Castles
I have found myself going back to Crystal Castles a ton recently. I was a massive fan of them a long time ago but kind of stopped listening to them for a bit. A lot of people seem to prefer the later stuff, but none of that holds a candle to that self titled record. Honestly, it really is a groundbreaking album in my opinion and one that has been in my rotation a lot lately. Is Through the Hosiery the best punk song of the 2000s? Yeah.
John Maus — Love Is Real
Definitely the best John Maus record. A true pop ode to the end of the world. I think that Maus, due to his association with Ariel, can be misconstrued as an ironist, but Love is Real feels like one of the most human and sincere records that came out in the milieu he was working in. I really love this record.
The Beach Boys — Pet Sounds
Equal parts tragic and triumphant. I think that Pet Sounds is one of the most groundbreaking records and is the definition of timeless.
Townes van Zandt — Townes van Zandt
I want to say that anyone who dismisses country music should be strapped down and forced to listen to this, but also I don’t, because that would cheapen this record. You need to arrive at this album on your own to truly appreciate it. I think that it is one of the greatest pieces of American music ever recorded. More emo than any emo band could ever hope to be and darker than any new goth band has ever attempted.
Iceage — New Brigade
Probably the best punk record of the 2010s. Dark, apocalyptic but still catchy. Love it and, unlike many post-punk or punk records of this era, this one still holds up incredibly well. This is just a stellar record front to back.
Fuck Buttons — Tarot Sport
I have a strange relationship with noise music. I think that original power electronics and harsh noise stuff is still pretty good, but it seems like a lot of newer acts are more concerned with shock. Noise is at its best when it is party music. I stand by this. Fuck Buttons are fun. This is music that can be played at a cramped DIY venue as well as a house party and still work. Definitely one of the only noise records I can listen to consistently and not get bored of.
Bobb Trimble — Iron Curtain Innocence
I feel like Trimble has been getting more recognition for putting out some of the best psych-folk ever. A lot of people do consider this as outsider music, but there is a lot of intention and skill in this record. I think that this is just an outstanding album that should be listened to by anyone interested in more avant-garde leaning stuff. It’s a perfect record.
In Gowan Ring — The Serpent and the Dove
Another one I feel like is pretty under discussed as far as folk music goes. In Gowan Ring is great at creating their own world that feels genuinely separate from reality. It feels medieval and futuristic all at once.
Neutral Milk Hotel — In the Aeroplane Over the Sea
I wouldn’t be the music fan I am now without this album. This is an album that you really need to find at the right time in your life for it to click. I still stand by this album and it has been a staple of my listening for as long as I can remember.
Xiu Xiu — Fabulous Muscles
There are a few Xiu Xiu records I could have put down for this, but Fabulous Muscles will always be my favorite from them.
I have also been listening to The Hellp a lot lately. I think they are one of the better bands going. The lead up to this album has been incredible. I am a huge fan of Noah Dillon’s photography work and I have really fallen in love with the band’s music.
Also everyone should check out Dark Tea, 2Hollis and Karina Sofia. All great LA-based artists.
Alden Nagel: What have you been reading lately that you’ve really loved?
Griffin S: I really wish I could say I have been reading a lot lately but I just haven't had a whole lot of time. I do find myself scrolling what remains of Twitter and reading the most bizarre shit I can find. I think that the platform, as it speeds towards its death, has become one of the most insane pieces of modern performance art I can think of. It seems like everyone has become a character and is just posting truly schizo stuff to a gallery of people who have fallen down the rabbit hole with them.
I picked up Liv Liberg's photo book at Arcana Books that has been really inspiring for my own photo work as well. I have really been enjoying that.
I am working my way through James Ellroy’s stuff. His writing is always amazing and I have yet to be disappointed in his work.
I read that book Sillyboy by Peter Vack somewhat recently as well. It was pretty decent for what it was. I mean, alt-lit is becoming a meme again but if you take this book for what it is, it’s a fun read.
Watching the Wheels by Simon Morris too. Phenomenal book. I think that Morris was one of those rare authors who can write about anything, mundane to surreal, and it feels visceral and truly transgressive. I thought that it was a perfect book all the way through.
Alden Nagel: Have there been any inspirations from spiritual practices, including that of the occult, that you’ve inspired by lately?
Griffin S: I wouldn't say I've ever really been inspired by these things. I find spiritual practice to be fascinating but it’s not something I am consciously drawing on. I guess one could say art is spiritual practice, but that could veer into unnecessary pretension. As far as the occult goes, I mean, I think it's interesting but not something I spend much time thinking about or being inspired by. Los Angeles has a really fascinating history of cults that I think is interesting, but that is about the extent of my fascination. I don't really find the occult all that inspiring to be honest.
Alden Nagel: How do you view the creative spirit of music to manifest itself differently than that of literature?
Griffin S: I think that music is the most multimedia form of art. It has a visual, literary and sonic component to it that is necessary to get right in order for the music to work or stand the test of time. Literature is great but it has one lane. Sure, cover art can be cool but it’s the prose or concept the writer is trying to get across that matters.
Alden Nagel: You recently visited San Francisco. How did visiting that city make you feel differently about it than you previously had, if at all?
Griffin S: Yeah I was there a few months ago. I think the Bay Area is utterly gorgeous. The city itself, honestly, it's depressing. A good friend of mine was born and raised there and can speak more to it, but the tech industry has gutted the creative scene there. It is a city that I think has so much potential that is being crushed by the tech world. It feels like it's been turned into their own little world that is totally sterile and devoid of what I feel endeared me to it for a while. I hate speaking like I know the city, so I'm going to stop but yeah, I think I felt a bit sad. I really enjoyed seeing my friend and walking around his neighborhood. Absolutely gorgeous city.
Alden Nagel: Regarding your novella Jackal Dog, what inspirations did you find went into writing the text?
Griffin S: So much. I think the Shūji Terayama film Pastoral: To Die in the Country was most influential. It deals with revisiting past experience and using it as art. The filmmaker character within the film has this crisis where he grapples with whether it is ethical to repurpose his childhood for the sake of creating art. I definitely have had thoughts about if the book was or is ethical. I'm sure some people might say it's unnecessarily irreverent and exploitative considering there are characters in the novella that are very real and I am kind of using their experience to create art for my own satisfaction or creative process. I stand by my own work, but those are definitely interesting questions and ones I will entertain if they come from the right people. If some random person I don’t give a shit about gets mad over it they can fuck off, I'll only discuss those questions with people who I respect or care about.
I would also say the photography of Torbjørn Rødland inspired me. He creates these very beautiful and disturbing images by pulling together things that are profoundly unnerving when juxtaposed.
Musically, I would say Xiu Xiu. I think if one were to ask what the book sounds like, I would tell them to listen to Xiu Xiu. A lot of classic New Wave stuff like Ultravox. The really iconic Soviet New Wave stuff like Kino was also a big inspiration as well. Kino are a band I absolutely love so their influence seeps into my consciousness a decent bit I’d say.
It's such a painfully obvious choice it almost seems comical, but Trainspotting. I think Trainspotting is the best drug film precisely because it doesn't fall into the trap of making hard drug use only the bad times. The junkies in that movie use drugs for a variety of reasons and the film doesn’t shy away from the fact that hard drugs feel so good, which is why I mainly used the drugs I did. It feels like the most human portrayal of drug use in mainstream film.
Alden Nagel: If I were to use the phrase “your Jackal Dog days” in mixed company, how would you respond to that?
Griffin S: I think I'd find it funny. Maybe my own way of processing the events I went through that are in the book is to laugh. The time period of that book and my life is without a doubt dark, but I think I have had enough distance from it now. I think that it is a natural reaction to want to laugh about darker times in one’s life. I find a lot of humor in it. I really do not want this novella to come across as an anti-drug piece. That is absolutely not my intention. I think that there is a lot of tragedy that comes along with drug use and the subculture around certain hard drugs, but also a lot of weird comedic moments that I experienced that I hope come across in some ways.
Alden Nagel: What is the weirdest interaction you’ve had with a stranger this past year?
Griffin S: I have had a few. There’s one in San Francisco that stands out to me. My friend and I were walking back from dinner and this one dude kept repeating the phrase “Frag ‘em, tag ‘em and bag ‘em. My master sergeant was KKK!” on a loop.
Alden Nagel: I’m sure you remember that one time in the past year when we were walking in front of a bar in downtown Olympia, WA. A group of young guys got kicked out about as fast as they went in. How would you retell that?
Griffin S: Yeah, being harassed by young guys who were drunk on Twisted Tea. I just remember being outside of a venue, I believe my friend was playing a show. We were walking by and these zoomers just pulled up shirtless, hit on us and promptly walked into this punk bar only to be thrown out faster than I have ever seen someone get booted from a venue. I think as they turned the corner they called us pussies as well.
Alden Nagel: What’s the best movie you’ve seen recently, that you watched on your own?
Griffin S: I think the film that stands out the most is the Jane Arden film The Other Side of the Underneath. It is essentially The Wicker Man meets Titticut Follies. By far the most terrifying film I've ever seen, but also one of the most stunning. Arden is a dreadfully under-discussed filmmaker who deserves more recognition.
Love and Mercy. I am a massive Beach Boys fan, but also a massive hater of most music biopics. This film made me love both even more than I thought possible. It's a really amazing film that is so deeply tragic yet beautiful. Seeing Brian Wilson creating what I might argue as the greatest piece of American music, Pet Sounds, is grueling. You see the struggle between genius and the chorus of doubters, as well as the unavoidable weight of mental illness that both fuel and obstruct the artistic process.
Wake in Fright. I loved this film. It is so overbearing and extreme that it feels like an endurance test. Australia has some great arthouse. I think this is essential viewing for any cinephile.
C'mon C’mon. Another film that had gone unwatched by me for too long. It hit me emotionally. I can't say enough good things about it.
Alden Nagel: What is the human soul, in your eyes?
Griffin S: The human soul is not set in stone. It grows and is diminished. I think it is the absolute reflection of who you are. It can only really exist if you love or connect with others. The more one isolates, the more I feel you are able to become soulless. Separating yourself from people completely, I feel, leads to true feelings of being dead inside.
Alden Nagel: When you hear the words “dark magick” what comes to mind?
Griffin S: I guess robes and hoods, the classic imagery. I am not really knowledgeable on these sorts of things. I guess one could say there are magical elements to some of the most horrific tragedies in recent memory, but that also feels irresponsible when said casually. I think people like to chalk things up to these very esoteric phenomena in order to cope with the horrors of the world. It is much easier to say someone is abusing, say children, under the direction of some dark entity than it is to just admit that some people are sick freaks who just enjoy hurting others. I find the satanic panic stuff to be interesting as pop culture phenomena. I think Eyes Wide Shut is a great example of that type of stuff. People cloaking their transgression in esoteric get-up and ritual for show, when in reality, they are just doing these nefarious things as a way to get off. Almost everything is performance art nowadays in how people conduct themselves.
Alden Nagel: What’s your favorite conspiracy theory?
Griffin S: I like the one where people think Andrew W.K. has been replaced by someone else.